Observations on intelligence and physicists
For years now I have been working with intelligent people. Some few have been at the genius level. Others have been extremely close. But most have been merely intelligent. After getting to know so many people within those categories I have come to a conclusion. The primary characteristic that determines one's placement among those three categories is one's ability to understand relevance when faced with a new problem. A genius is able to quickly recognize what details matter and what details do not prior to conducting a rigorous analysis. As an individual moves away from the genius level to the merely intelligent, he begins to comparatively lose that ability, requiring that he waste time on thoughts and analyses that a genius would never conduct.
Most of us have stereotyped imagery of what an intelligent person looks like. For many people, this image is one of a nerd. What I have come to conclude, however, is that extremely intelligent people do not conform to that stereotype--at least, not at a rate much higher than that of the general population. Those in the merely intelligent category lose sight of what is important, and are more likely to appear nerdy than a genius is. Of the three extremely intelligent or genius individuals I've worked with who immediately come to mind, one looks like an uncle who would make a good Santa, one looks like a good person you'd meet at a synagogue, and the other looks like a former frat boy.
In contrast, everyone I've worked with who really looked like a nerd was much less intelligent than these other individuals. In fact, the nerdy looking ones seemed closer to "average" intelligence (with average being defined as people I know, who are pretty much all well above society's average intelligence). I remember a few physics students who weren't especially intelligent, quick, or able to differentiate between important and unimportant details, yet all of them "dressed the part." From their clothing, to their manner of walking and speaking, these guys tried to display "physicist." Unfortunately for them, the most brilliant physicists I've ever dealt with don't look like physicists. I remember entering some physics classes during my first couple years at the university and being intimidated by the really confident, nerdy-looking guys who were outspoken. It turns out, all of those guys who I would have thought would set the curve were average or below. The curve setters ended up being the relatively normal looking guys who sat alone and didn't answer questions in class. Eventually I learned who I should really be intellectually intimidated by--and nerds aren't them.
Again, all of that stems from my original conclusion. The people who desperately want to be viewed as intelligent focus on the wrong details. They fail to be intelligent but they are infatuated with looking the part. The truly genius-level people I've met know that the appearance of genius is irrelevant to being a genius. E.g., instead of joining Mensa, an organization designed to make a person feel smart, they go be smart, despite greatly exceeding the organization's membership requirements. They realize it is a waste of time to join an organization devoted to appearance.
Conclusion: sheer effort can partially substitute for genius. Most of the people at my lab are merely intelligent people who worked hard. But there are a few genius-level people here of intimidating intelligence. They didn't have to try as hard or waste as much effort on details as the merely intelligent--they can see what matters, seeing through the irrelevancies. The intelligent people here know how to do calculus, statistics, and matlab simulations, but the genius people here, who I respect so much, know which problems to apply those tools to. There is a lot to learn from that kind of person....
Most of us have stereotyped imagery of what an intelligent person looks like. For many people, this image is one of a nerd. What I have come to conclude, however, is that extremely intelligent people do not conform to that stereotype--at least, not at a rate much higher than that of the general population. Those in the merely intelligent category lose sight of what is important, and are more likely to appear nerdy than a genius is. Of the three extremely intelligent or genius individuals I've worked with who immediately come to mind, one looks like an uncle who would make a good Santa, one looks like a good person you'd meet at a synagogue, and the other looks like a former frat boy.
In contrast, everyone I've worked with who really looked like a nerd was much less intelligent than these other individuals. In fact, the nerdy looking ones seemed closer to "average" intelligence (with average being defined as people I know, who are pretty much all well above society's average intelligence). I remember a few physics students who weren't especially intelligent, quick, or able to differentiate between important and unimportant details, yet all of them "dressed the part." From their clothing, to their manner of walking and speaking, these guys tried to display "physicist." Unfortunately for them, the most brilliant physicists I've ever dealt with don't look like physicists. I remember entering some physics classes during my first couple years at the university and being intimidated by the really confident, nerdy-looking guys who were outspoken. It turns out, all of those guys who I would have thought would set the curve were average or below. The curve setters ended up being the relatively normal looking guys who sat alone and didn't answer questions in class. Eventually I learned who I should really be intellectually intimidated by--and nerds aren't them.
Again, all of that stems from my original conclusion. The people who desperately want to be viewed as intelligent focus on the wrong details. They fail to be intelligent but they are infatuated with looking the part. The truly genius-level people I've met know that the appearance of genius is irrelevant to being a genius. E.g., instead of joining Mensa, an organization designed to make a person feel smart, they go be smart, despite greatly exceeding the organization's membership requirements. They realize it is a waste of time to join an organization devoted to appearance.
Conclusion: sheer effort can partially substitute for genius. Most of the people at my lab are merely intelligent people who worked hard. But there are a few genius-level people here of intimidating intelligence. They didn't have to try as hard or waste as much effort on details as the merely intelligent--they can see what matters, seeing through the irrelevancies. The intelligent people here know how to do calculus, statistics, and matlab simulations, but the genius people here, who I respect so much, know which problems to apply those tools to. There is a lot to learn from that kind of person....


34 Comments:
What about people who have common sense? Many intelligent people don't have common sense. Does intelligence + common sense = genius?
"The primary characteristic that determines one's placement among those three categories is one's ability to understand relevance when faced with a new problem."
Or in other words, they are able to see the big picture clearly, which you have so eloquently done in this blog entry, thus proving you are, as well, a genius.
Your distinction could also be defined as a difference between wisdom and knowledge. A genius must have both, at least in regards to the subject they are a genius in.
Also, I have to say that I somewhat resent your description of me as "an uncle who would make a good Santa." I've been getting a little chubby over the years, but come on! Santa?!
Chen,
Intelligence and common sense make for a powerful combination, but I think genius takes something more: knowledge of what is and isn't important. Like Chris said, insight into the big picture.
Chris,
I apologize for not making my references clearer. The "uncle who would make a good santa" is actually Chen, and you are the guy who looks like you'd be at home at a synagogue.
dang i knew i was good looking and usually sit quietly in a corner, but i didn't know that would qualify me for genius stature...(so says the blond creative chick who colored in college...just nod and smile at her then walk away cause you know she's very close to insanity :) )
ps- sorry i missed you at Christmas Jordan!!! Florida in March or April perhaps???
Yeah - let's all go to Florida in March!
As far as this intelligence deal goes: I'm very good at seeing the details in a problem or new situation, determing the relevence of everything and coming up with the most efficient way to proceed with it. But, I just get bored with the typical "smart" things like math or a lot of science. Where do I fit in in this whole deal?
Hey, we live in Pensacola, so if you are planning to come down to Florida...
Emily,
Sad I missed you over Christmas/New year's, but I hope you had a spectacular time in the frozen north of Europe. Someday I would like to visit there. As far as FL goes the jury is stilll out for me. Debt is irksome and I have been paying it more slowly than I had hoped. As is often the case, the victor of the fight between financial responsibility and fun will make the decision....
Laura,
I didn't really expound on my definition of "seeing relevance." At first thought, I would say that what you described is more like a pragmatic intelligence, which contains elements of "common sense" but is more applied in a deeper way. That's the kind of ability we'd all like to see in administrators--knowing what resources to use where, and what really matters within that context. What I was alluding to is a bit different, and I think Chris's idea of having insight into the big picture is the closest I can come to describing it. But I guess the scope of my observations is really limited to sub-categorization anyway, i.e. the differentiation of mere mathematical sophistication and outright genius. I guess this could involve very specific comparisons like "the intelligent would know how to account for local winds when calculating the trajectory of an incoming ballistic missile while a genius would know that such calculations are pointless because the velocity is high enough that local wind effects are negligible." I'm going to stop the blather now because I'm not sure what my point is....
Chris,
Wait... you live in Pensacola? I thought you lived in the Navy. But doesn't that mean you're in Iraq?
I liked your thoughts on relative winds. If you have a pilot whiz-wheel, they aren't very hard to calculate (it's like a slide rule, but in a circle and a lot more complicated).
Sorry I didn't call you back today. I didn't get any free time until now and I'm exhausted. I still have many feelings of positive magnitude towards you, though.
Couldn't much of a person's insight into the big picture be chalked up to experience rather than genius level? Applying what was learned from previous experiences to a new situation can certainly prevent needless work. Or does the qualification of a genius include the ability to reason through problems in which they have no related experience in to begin with? But I suppose in so doing a genius may relate a more distant experience to the problem and use reason to bridge the gap.
Accurately and efficiently applying knowledge to situations without previous experience yet lacking misconception = genius?
Kyle,
Funny you mentioned that, because I was thinking about that after my last comment. I think you're exactly right. People with a lot of experience in one domain come to understand exactly what does and doesn't matter within that domain, and that really doesn't require exceptional intelligence. In order for there to be any value in what I wrote before there really must be some cross-domain jumping going on, as you alluded to. My group at work analyzes problems from a huge variety of fields, so I get to see one of the genius-level guys operate across many areas and it is a sight to behold....
Anyway, thanks for pointing out that underlying assumption. I did a poor enough job in my initial post that really the only thing left is to summarize it as: I like to watch people who can see through irrelevant details in action.
Hope you're starting to feel better....
I think a genius must be able to intelligently analyzes new things he has not seen, including issues regarding the big picture. The intelligent-non-geniuses I know will immediately start analyzing new things in the same way they did others. A genius can see something new and say, "the wind analysis is not necessary" (as in Jordan's example).
hold on here, what about the people that are a genuis butt doenot care aboot wone thing enough to put anee brian power twords it, sow they may seem knot too bee butt they are a geenyus. Also, I have new informayshon regarding thu toylet payper argyument. What abowt thu wone handed tare. From the top tare, it may coz thu roll too releese more paper than nesessary.
Mike
Dang it, Mike! You spelled "geenyus" wrong. You're such a failure!
It's spelled "jeanyous."
Mike,
A person who is a genius but doesn't want to make any effort is still covered under the conditions I mentioned (i.e. that they could see through irrelevancy).
Regarding the toilet paper, the moment of inertia of the roll is the same whether the roll is placed backwards or forwards. Additionally, the maximum tension the paper can handle before tearing is also the same either way. Since those two conditions are the only necessary for determining breakage, pulling out an excess amount of paper has the same probability in either case.
Yes, it's true, I just described the physics of toilet paper rolls.
Oh, I see...you were probably referring to the fact that you can use your wrist to hold the roll in place while tearing off paper--but only when the roll is on backwards. That is an argument that could be seen to be in favor of such a placement. There is a one-handed tear available to the other placement too though--use your thumb to hold the roll from spinning and then rip the paper with your other fingers. But if you pull and make a tearing motion simultaneously it isn't necessary to have wrist/thumb holding the roll in place. This does run the risk of pulling out lots of excess toilet paper all over the floor, but sufficient practice can prevent this.
I'm watching Judge Joe Brown right now. He's keeping it real. Does that make him a genius?
why won't you return my phone calls?!?!?!!
We can guess where Jordan was between 6:56 and 8:17AM. Sitting on the toilet in deep thought contemplating toilet paper physics. I am slightly disappointed it took you 1hr 21min. I expected that to be a 10-15 min. calculation for you.
If you have trouble with pulling excess toilet paper off of the roll in the one handed-tear method and you do not think practice will help, I suggest getting the mega rolls of toilet paper. The excess weight decreases the difficulty level of the perfect tear ---ignificantly. My failure rate significantly increases when the roll is almost empty. Mega rolls can have up to four times the sheets. This translates into reducing the frequncy of the difficult nearly empty roll problem by 75%.
Chad,
That was the funniest thing that I read during 6:14 and 11:15 tonight. You Raneys get me every time.
I meant to say "between", but if you understand my original words as saying it took that long for me to read your comments, then it is funnier.
Chris,
Thanks for bringing that up. "Keeping it real" is probably the most important part of being a genius...so yes.
Swiemo,
Sorry I was so slow.... Hope you aren't freezing to death!
Chad,
All the physics took part in the first post. The second one was merely me acknowledging that the first post wasn't really relevant....
Kyle,
That is a good suggestion. Not only does a megaroll have a larger moment of inertia (and since the force required to successfully tear the tp can be assumed to be the same on all rolls, such tearing will be easier with the same applied force), it is also large enough to rub the tp containment unit, further increasing rotational friction and making it easier to successfully make a tear in the tp. The only possible conclusion is that we should all purchase rolls the size of a building.
Chris,
Why are you such a racist?
Since I don't have your e-mail address, I had to post on your blog. Chad is making fun of me because I've never posted on a blog before and I needed help. I drove by a small goat farm on the way to Joplin awhile ago and I thought of you. That's all. :)
Jordan,
I don't think the moment of inertia of a roll of tp really matters regarding tp separation. It may have a greater resistance to rotation due to greater mass, but the applied moment due to its thickness is more prone to rotate the roll. Granted, with a greater radius, the angle of rotation will be smaller, but the concern here is with excess tp extension, which is purely dependent on tangential velocity and momentum. Now, the thing that would help with a larger roll (as you mentioned) would be the increased friction due to weight, which would resist the rotation of the roll, hence reducing the extra tp extension.
Allison,
Despite the fact that some people would probably be offended by that, I feel deeply honored; especially since you went through the effort of learning how to post on a blog to relay that message. I wooeh.eh.eh.eh.eh.onder if you thought of me because of the farm animal sounds that Kyle and I occasionally make at the dinner table...?
Anyway...be warned, I am about to break into some physics below:
Chris,
I'm afraid the analysis agrees with me on this. I think you are thinking conservation of angular momentum when what really matters here is torque.
Picture a solid cylinder with the rotational axis through the long center. This has a moment of inertia of I=1/2 m r^2 (the term is slightly more complicated in truth because of the hole in a tp roll, but it doesn't change the result below much, just complicates the math). Because the roll is fixed, all force from pulling downward on the flap will be applied as torque. This torque is t = r x F = rF sin theta. Theta is 90 degrees, so t = rF, with r as the radius and F as the applied force, which is entirely tangential. But t is also given by I*alpha, with I as the moment of inertia and alpha as the second derivative of theta with respect to time. So t = rF = I*alpha. So rF = (1/2 m r^2)*alpha. But m also increases with the size of the roll. We can assume a uniform mass distribution... so s = mass per unit area (as viewed from side of roll). So m = s*pi*r^2. Substituting this into the above equation gives: F = 1/2*s*pi*alpha*r^3
In words, the tangential force required to rotate the roll with the same angular acceleration (alpha) increases with the cube of the radius. But when F reaches some tension, Tmax, the toilet paper breaks, as desired. Tmax is fixed for all sizes--i.e., the tp can only withstand the same amount of tangential tension before breaking regardless of radius. Thus, F is a constant in the equation above. So, constant = alpha*r^3. As the radius increases, less rotation (alpha) is required to reach the necessary breakage tension. In other words, because of the moment of inertia alone, if you double the radius of the roll you make it easier to break off a piece by a factor of 8. In actuality it is less than this because of the disparity in moment of inertia I mentioned above (i.e., the hole in the roll), so it is probably more like a factor of 7 for doubling the roll--from moment of inertia alone. When rotational friction is added in, it could easily jump much higher. But the point of all of this is the goal of understanding how to keep a roll from spinning out of control (like you mentioned, how to minimize angular velocity). This analysis shows that there is indeed a strong cubic radial dependence on this, allowing for you to use much less angular acceleration to get the same successful breakage as you increase the radius, solely due to moment of inertia, even in a frictionless environment. As a final clarification, the friction I spoke of is not due to weight, but rather the increased radius, which increases the likelihood of rubbing on the tp containment unit.
This made me think of you:
http://www.printedtp.com/
I bet you could think of a couple things to do with this.
Have a great day today!
Jordan: I think you are thinking conservation of angular momentum when what really matters here is torque.
Yeah, you're right about the distinction (I was thinking about CAM). I read your analysis and followed you the whole way, but have had 4 beers and am tired so I didn't really try to check for any errors (although you're pretty much perfect so I wouldn't expect any). One point I noticed, however, is that angular velocity has little to do with the roll spinning out of control, at least in the practical sense. We're concerned with the length of excess tp, not the excess degrees of rotation. Thus, a huge roll only need spin a small amount of degrees to get a large excess of tp. This may not change anything, and perhaps we're speaking of different things (i.e., the definition of an "out of control roll"), but I thought it worth mentioning.
Thanks Laura...I'll keep that site in mind. I'm sure some great idea will come about eventually.
Chris,
Pretty sure there are no errors since mechanics is my favorite area of physics. You're right about the need to better define what we mean by a roll spinning out of control. As you said, a large roll would unleash more tp than a small roll with the same angular displacement. However, this quantity is proportional to the radius. Change in angle can be found to be 1/2 alpha time^2, since initial velocity and angular displacement are taken to be zero. So total displacement of tp would be 1/2*r*alpha*time^2. So if we'd like, we could divide this out from the other equation, but we'd still get an r-squared dependence (just rather than r-cubed). Even with that most stringent definition of "spinning out of control" then, we still find an r^2 dependence on quantity of tp released, just from moment of inertia.
I think maybe I'll write out the equations and work out the math myself because I'm actually quite intrigued. You never cease to amaze me, Jordan... or should I say, Superman!
Yes, I wish I had a whiteboard that was wired directly into the blog so I could draw diagrams and equations easily...
Let me know what result you get if you do it.
Also,
Maybe you should say "superperson" so you don't offend anyone.
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